Chuck, I don't think what your seeing is abnormal. In fact, I believe that of the liberals on JU, only a small number are Obama ideologues. I'm sure many don't want to hear "I told you so", and that's not what conservatives should be saying. We have this Congress and administration for the next one and three years respectively, so their is plenty of time for liberals to push an agenda. If anything we owe conservative and moderate Democrats a great deal for standing up to their party bosses and not allowing these monstrous spending bills to pass. Although the liberal press blames the Republicans, they are helpless to prevent anything that most Democrats want to push through.

Don't get me wrong, I'll take my Obama/leftist shot from time to time, it goes with the territory. But I'm trying to keep it on his policies and not the man (his experience, appointments and associations make this difficult to do). I didn't like the personal attacks with Bush, and don't see much point in returning the favor. You'll see liberals return when good things start happening. I want unemployment to decrease and the economy to improve. I'm not so spitefully that I want bad things to happen just to discredit this president (many on the left did that with Bush). We can debate the cause and effects of a recovery on its own merits.

Like conservatives, liberals believe they have the best interest of the country at heart too. We just have two entirely different ways of getting there. My main concern is the liberal's watchdog like behavior during the Bush administration (and I believe it helped keep things honest) is now somehow muted under the dazzle of this administration. These forces are still trying to gain greater control over the people, just less people are watching now. The only thing I could say is stay vigilant no matter who is in office, now is no time for a break, corruption should be everyones concern and so should the preservation of the Constitution. It has worked for us all this many years, don't let anyone change that, friend or foe.

That much I agree. I know they believe they want whats best. I also agree we don't need to lower ourselves to their standards. My goal here is to get them talking. Things seem a bit slow around here now that Obama is not doing as great as they expected him to do and I just want to draw them to comment somehow.

Basically I'm bored.

Interesting statement.  And I agree.  A key difference however is that we dont have to "want".  History and experience has taught us that the bad things are self inflicted and as you noted, there is not a thing conservatives can do about it.  So while I dont WANT things to happen, I know they will.  But I knew that over a year ago. 

As with any lesson in life, the one learned through experience is the one well remembered.  I do remember Carter (most liberals ignore that era, conveniently forget it, or were not around).  And with age comes wisdom.  I saw later in life that Reagan was not electable in 76, but as we know won in a landslide in 80 (even with a 3rd party trying to draw off his voters).

So it will be in 10 and 12.  Conservatives are already making a statement - from the 23rd in NY to the Fla Senate race to Virginia.  it takes time, and perhaps more years of liberals to turn the tide.  It will turn.  But like goldfish, the electorate has a short memory so it will not last.  But just because they will once again gain control does not mean we have to accede to their way of doing things like bush did.

They hate Bush, not because he was a Reagan, but because he was not a liberal, and yet did a lot they agreed with.  outside of lemings, Liberals are probably the only species left that purposefully cut off their nose to spite their face.

I hear ya. I believe the only way to get some dialog going is to concentrate on a specific issue. If one is to believe the polls, 2/3rds of all Americans don't want the health care bill that is being push threw congress, so I'm not surprised the talk here is spares now. Climate change seems to be still getting some mileage, not sure for how long. I think many are just burnt out, too much craziness in govt. this year.

Sage advice Doc... on par of what I expect from you.

We're all out fighting the evils of conservatism and holding off the No-icans. Oh, I mean republicans. You know, the trollish brutes that we are.

Actually, to be honest, I've found more compelling things to do than be harassed by those who have shown that they generally think that liberals are misguided morons, who don't think, don't care, and are the be all and end all of evil under the sun. \s

I've had more pressing priorities, like college, work, the holidays, family and a likely forthcoming change in my life. JU really has lost all sense of civility and appeal to be honest, but I check back in every once in a while because of a few people I like.

What rock on which planet have you been hiding Nitro? You do realize that the Democratic party (The helm of all things "liberal" and evil as y'all claim.) is pretty much split, and there are rumors that there is a movement to start a different party.

The same can be said of conservatives under O's presidency, Nitro. Frankly, no exceptions, both parties become extremely vigilant (i.e. nit picky) when the other party has the presidency, both parties become more zealous, both parties bend over backwards to criticize the president (or the other parties) even when they do something right. It's like batman on steroids; it's disgusting and ridiculous.

Neither party has the answer, and neither has the market on representing our nation's founding principles. Hell, Thomas Pain (English spelling), a man many conservatives like to quote, was a socialist in some aspects. There was a combination of both conservatism and liberalism (maybe not exactly like the modern incarnations, but none-the-less...).

Rhetorically: Where is the geniality in politics? Where's the ability to go out and have dinner with each other and know that, despite the differences of opinions and beliefs, you knew the other man's integrity was solid - you had a bond with them. (i.e. the post-world war two era congress)

(btw, why are you guys always so condescending towards liberals?)

~AJ

See Chuck just rub your magic liberal lamp and one will appear!

Oddly enough while I expected AJ to be one of the first responders I didn't think he would take it this hard. After all, he always denies being a Liberal. Don't you AJ?

"no exceptions, both parties become extremely vigilant (i.e. nit picky) when the other party has the presidency, both parties become more zealous, both parties bend over backwards to criticize the president (or the other parties) evenwhen they do something right. It's like batman on steroids; it's disgusting and ridiculous."

I think you answered your own question.

Hey, I see Lucas is still around.  Names changed, but still the empty headed adolescent idiot from many names and years.  Why Alderic, lewis?  Are you channeling Ted kennedy now?

The short answer is they do not use their brains.  They spout talking points - like you do, bleat like sheep whatever the leaders tell them is the mot-du-jour - like you do, and fail to think rationally.  They feel a lot.  They feel your pain and want all the hurt to go away, so they take the simplistic approach to life with simplistic solutions that make them feel better, but do no good (and indeed usually do a lot of harm).  They never think things through.  They are kind of like animals in that regard.  Never thinking about reprecussions of their actions, just living in the present.

***Corrected***

Kinda Ironic considering the concept of birth consist of a painful process in order for a child to be born and not to mention that the act of conceiving the child can be painful the first time or depending on the people doing it.

The way i see it everything in life is painful. In order to know fire was dangerous someone had to get burned first. People die all the time, part of nature and it's painful for the person dying and those who loved them. Children can be pains in the a$$ (LOL). Pain is part of living yet Liberals want to do everytyhing they can to take the pain away from everything. Hell, even at birth Drs spank the child to make it cry so they can breath.

I've been doing some reading and writing and I've come to accept that I am in fact liberal when it comes to the foundations of my beliefs; that said, I have no qualms over reaching across the spectrum and working with others (and I mean real give/take problem solving compromise, not how either party defines it...). Being liberal though, doesn't mean that I will support the Democratic Party. I feel they've really become corrupt and perverse.

(Oddly enough, I want the health care bill, in its current form, to fail.)

~AJ

1. Actually it isn't lewis, but thanks for playing.

2. Go figure, an insult...why am I not surprised. Is ironic though, heh.

~A

Dont you mean meh Lucas?  Look, dont con me.  I have been around and seen enough of your manifestations to know you when I read you.  I did not have to read much to see the similarity, so I started digging.  Seems strange that your latest manifestation started right when the last one left JU (according to JU), that you write with the same air head ideas (I did not insult you, I merely described you), and new account was created from the same IP address.

now you may be lucas Jr, or Mrs. Lucas, or the superliberal, or anyone else you pretend to be.  But dont con a con man.  I just noted your presence so I can ignore your comments for the waste of space they are.  You are free to make as many as you want, but I dont have to waste my time on them.  Be well and have fun.

***Corrected***

Well I'm glad you finally decided to accept that your ideals and beliefs were more Liberal than you wanted to accept. Nothing wrong with it, if it's what you believe that is cool. That's what this country is all about.

1) As with Bush, I'm giving Obama a bit of time to see what  he does before I completely make  up my mind. I was actually pro-Bush and pro-Republican until shortly after the Iraq war revealed there were no WMD's and the entire invasion was not necessary and was instead, built on a pack of lies.

2) I'm not "pro-democrat" in fact I haven't been since 1994. Anyone who cares about the working class should have left the democratic party then when they effectively stabbed your middle class in the back with NAFTA (which by the way, neither Bush 2 nor Obama have done anything about and have only encouraged.

3) Liberal does not necessarily mean democrat. For example, Cindy Sheehan ran for office directly against Nancy Pelosi. I would have much preferred it if she had beaten Pelosi. There are only a few "democrats" that I consider to be actual liberals, Kucinich is one of them. On the Republican side, I would have been much  happier if Ron Paul had run for office. But, above all of them I'm more a supporter of Nader than anything else.

4) From what I've seen thus far, Obama is actually little different from Bush. In fact, at the core he's doing all the same things Bush did with a few minor differences like the window-dressing topics of abortion, gun control and so forth.

Economically his policies are just as rotten as Bush's were and he's just as beholden to major corporate interests as Bush was. So he's going to raise taxes on the well to do by a tiny amount, big whoop. He's certainly  not going to "soak the rich" like Roosevelt or Eisenhower did, as with all things Obama does his policies are geared towards -appearing- to care for the average guy while in reality he's just as beholden to the same interests Bush was. Most of his credibility went out the window when he expanded the Afghanistan war.... in my opinion, he should be pulling all of your troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan and closing down overseas bases that aren't necessary.