no but have you not been listening to me Leauki?  Because if you had, you wouldn't have asked this.  Maybe it's because we have been having discussions on different sites (giving you the benefit of the doubt).  I have a couple of articles on my site and some of this discussion has been transferred over there as well.  It's getting hard to remember what was said where.  I am ok with the Constitution as is. I think it's perfect really.  I'm glad it wasn't set up as a theocracy....because man would ruin it as they do everything else.  The founders deliberately dd this on purpose and I agree with what they did.  Go to my blog and maybe you can piece all this together. 

I understand that and have mentioned that as well. The Federal Government left it up to the states.....but look what's been going on with the S.C. using the "separation of church & state" against the states today.   The discussion was ongoing between AJ and I and if you noticed....he put up that above chart concerning state mottos and how they didn't have too many states that mentioned God.  I had told him previously their founding documents did show this but I said "motto" instead of "preamble." 

because of your comment......duh! 

Sorry I don't see it could you please quote it for me? I pulled up the text online and the translation is the same as my KJV. I don't use any other version because it is the most accurate translation I know and even that one has some minor errors.

I would if there was only one true Doctor. Monotheistic religion believes in only one god, there is no need to pluralize the title. The major religions are monotheistic even back then. Most people that worship multiple gods usually latch onto one as their god with respect to the others in varying degrees. I know this because my mother and oldest son are Hairy Krishnas, (smile) they worship more than one god. Sort of like how the Catholics latch onto a saint or the mother Mary as their protector. In using “In God we trust” it still fits and serves the desire of others to feel included and not excluded. So no one belief is above another in the eyes of the Federal Government. Now if the money said in Shiva we trust then there would be a violation of the law. That is the name of a specific god in a specific religion.

This isn't quite correct.  I too was brought up on KJV and love it but I also know it's not the most accurate.  I have literally destroyed two KJV versions over the years by reading it so much.  One is literally hanging in shreds.  hahahaha...the saying goes ......"either this book will keep you from sin or sin will keep you from this book."

 If you want the most accurate and literal...as close to the original language in English as you can...try the NASB. 

Sure:

ויהי אחרי מות משה עבד יהוה ויאמר יהוה אל־יהושע בן־נון משרת משה לאמר

"Now after the death of Moses the servant of YHWH it came to pass, that YHWH spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying"

(I used the King James translation and inserted "YHWH" where the Hebrew text says the name.)

Literally: "now after death (of) Moses servant (of) YHWH and (he) will say [the "and" makes the future tense into past tense: (he) said] YHWH [Hebrew uses Verb-Subject-Object word order] to Yehoshu3a attendant ("minister") (of) Moshe to say ("saying")."

And that's your claim that "In God we trust." is not specific to a religion falls apart.

Feel free to explain this one

I would prefer it if you read what you yourself wrote. You put it quite excellently:

"I would if there was only one true Doctor."

The "one true" is the most specific you can get. The statement is either NOT specific to a religion or it is. But it cannot be NOT specific but refer to a "one true" anything. "One true" IS specific.

Speaking of the one true god, did you figure out what's special about the three letters in His name or have you given up on the "Well, if you knew a little bit about God" angle?

Perhaps I hadn't.

Just tell me now and I'll remember.

Are in favour or against the constitution demanding that government stay out of religion and are you in favour or against government not following the constitution and endorsing a god or two every now and then?

I am in favor of keeping the Constitution as is.  It's perfect as written.    Freedom of religion.....not freedom from religion. 

That doesn't answer my question fully.

Apart from believing that the constitution as it is, do you ALSO believe that the federal government MUST follow and hence is not allowed to promote ANY religion in any way?

1. KFC, don't even go there; you said state mottos. That is a very different thing than state preambles; how else was I to know you meant preambles, instead of mottos?

2. I believe our nation was founding by Theists. Theists of many, many different flavors. However, I believe,and as the words in our founding documents support such, that while our founding fathers were Deists/Theists, their actions were to establish a secular government.

3. You know, ask any constitutional lawyer and he'll say the same thing. The bulk, if not all, of our nation's principles were based off of enlightenment thinking.Which, as I have stated before, has roots in Deism - which mind you, is a form of faith, but one that relies on reason.

Pray tell, if our constitution was based off of Christian principles, where do we get freedom of speech, or freedom of religion for that matter?

4. It is not a lie. Our nation was founding, primarily, 90% of it, on enlighten ment principles.

5. Tell me, if we were founded to be a Christian nation, or the founding fathers wanted to establish Christianity as the de facto faith of the nation. Then tell me, why do we have this:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

You know, it seems to me, a fairly reasonable and rational individual - that there is something wrong here. According to your logic and beliefs, wouldn't there be no need for this amendment? Christianity, sorry to say, doesn't leave any room for freedom of religion. Nor did the founding fathers put in anything that says we have to follow that religion.

Fact of the matter KFC: The founding father's actions speak louder, MUCH louder, than their beliefs or written words. They may have been, again I will say...they may have been religious individuals - I'm willing to concede that; however, they obviously had the intentions of keeping their government secular. Through the enlightenment principles.

Uh, no. Heck, I remember growing up and going to school and being told that I had to Capitlize "God," because it was a name of someone, etc. Even the rules of our language push us toward the Christian god.

Here, in fact, is a dictionary entry:

God

  var interfaceflash = new LEXICOFlashObject ( "http://cache.lexico.com/d/g/speaker.swf", "speaker", "17", "15", "<a href=\"http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/G02/G0226200\" target=\"_blank\"><img src=\"http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif\" border=\"0\" /></a>", "6"); interfaceflash.addParam("loop", "false"); interfaceflash.addParam("quality", "high"); interfaceflash.addParam("menu", "false"); interfaceflash.addParam("salign", "t"); interfaceflash.addParam("FlashVars", "soundUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.lexico.com%2Fdictionary%2Faudio%2Fluna%2FG02%2FG0226200.mp3"); interfaceflash.addParam('wmode','transparent');interfaceflash.write();  /gɒd/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [god] Show IPA noun, verb, god⋅ded, god⋅ding, interjection –noun

3.	( lowercase ) one of several deities, esp. a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.

4.	( often lowercase ) a supreme being according to some particular conception: the god of mercy.

6.	( lowercase ) an image of a deity; an idol.

7.	( lowercase ) any deified person or object.

8.	( often lowercase ) Gods, Theater . a. the upper balcony in a theater. b. the spectators in this part of the balcony.

So in essence, god with a big G, is reference to the christian god.

1. In God We Trust has nothing to do with the founders and framers of our nation! The motto was first established almost a hundred years after the nation's founding. It was done by Secretary of Treasury Chase, because of the civil war and peoples' increased clinging toward religion, etc.

2. You know what is ironic? The two main cases that set things into motion regarding prayer in public schools (Engel v. Vitale [1962] and Abington School District v. Schempp[1963)] , were cases brought on by....religious individuals. Then of course there was the Edgerton Bible Case, where it was Roman Catholics.It seems the religious folks have shot themselves in the foot.

3. First off, no one *has* to not work on Christmas. Secondly, the date in question was actually, originally, a pagan holiday.

4. First: Only if you're Christian; not myself. Second: I don't berate, I debate, and...you (rhetorical) need to quit berating.

Okay, if you wish ot pick and choose parts of my statement that is fine. In monotheistic religions there is one true god and all the rest are fakes. For those that believe in many gods the believers usually pick on sometimes two of them as their main belief or god with the rest as minor gods subordinate to the one they choose to believe in. Again "In God we trust" is valid. It is not in the one true god we trust, or in a god we trust. I wrote what "I" believed and thought not what the constitution said. You just chose to take what you wanted and ignored the rest. Let us look at what the constitution actually says instead of paraphrasing.

Article the third [Amendment I] Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

So you can see none of what you object to is actually written in the constitution so your argument is invalid.

What say you?

Palidan,

The connotation and implication of the motto In God We Trust leaves no doubt, it's the Christian (Judaic, etc.) god. Our own language supports the assertion. I mean the mottow talks about one god, if you go to any dictionary or talk to any enlish professor - they'll agree.

In order for it to be constitutional it has to conform to the intent of the framers and founders of the nation when not actually written in the constitution.

Not according to what is says in #1, 2, not until you get to #5 do you even see the word christian and with that they mention a splinter religion the Christian Scientists, your argument makes no sense. Only you and people that choose to make the leap if illogic see it as you do.