Zoo, I'm with you about the idea of us lowering ourselves to terrorist standards. Tourture should not be an alternative. But I can't help but wonder how we could ever survive an enemy that does not see thru the same eyes we do, that would take a plane full of innocent men, women and children and crash it into a building full of innocent men, women and children just because they believe that our people should should suffer the consiquences of our Gov't actions, if we have to wait for them to make the first move so as to have an excuse to fight back and even then we will defend ourselves based on a set of rules that the enemy will never follow and lives will be lost in the process because we follow these rules but then if we do nothing the death toll will likely be larger. The Iraq war took a long time to reach the 3000 death mark, it took the 9/11 terrorist less than a day to do it.

If you were aware that someone was going to kill you or a family member, would you wait till the deed was done before you do something about it? Would you question those you believe might now information that can save you or your families lives? What would you do to obtain this information? How far would you go?

Ever notice how the people of this country change their tune the moment after a disaster happens? I'm sure most people disagreed with the idea of using any kind of tourture no matter the reason on anyone but as soon as a major disaster hit and hundreds or thousands or maybe even millions die, people quickly wonder why, if tourture could have prevented it, was it not done regardless? I am of the beliefe that people do not like certain things so long as these certain things do not affect them, but once it does, even a person who loves and values life might find themselves capable of taking a life if their own or someone they love's life is on the line. I know I would.

We can be "moral" all we want, we can request or even demand to have a Gov't that is "moral" and "fair" but when faced with the realities of life, I am willing to bet that all bets are off at that point.

Well your honest about it and that's what I like about you Zoo.

Let me say I don't think it should be a government policy either. I do think the military or special agencies need to determine if it is necessary at all. Your average foot soldier may have little to offer, but the mastermind behind a big event or a leader involved in planning? I say do what is necessary to get the information, no need to pull out your best trick first, if the information can be extracted without it.

You look at things a bit different when you consider each man and woman in uniform to be your brother or sister, or son and daughter.

Admittedly, I am staunchly against killing in any form, and against torture; however, I don't want to see our nation lower itself to their standards, otherwise we're no better than them.I care about our nation's image and standing. How do we gain any favor or respect if we're assumed to be war mongerers, or worse? We try to ignore what others say, we try to claim we're taking the high ground and doing what needs to be done, but the world tends to disagree. What then? Do we continue and lose any sort of ground in the international community? That's my concern, that's why I would rather not see us torture - besides my general bias against it.

~Alderic

And Al Quiada, murderers, rapists, and pedophiles everywhere thank you. (sorry for those I left out)

Wonder how much of the world is losing sleep tonight, wondering if the US likes them or not. Dear diary the US likes me, they like me not, they like me, they really really like me. Here's a flash: they all like is our money, or what we can do for them and don't give a rats @ss about anything else. I bet the recent Obama/Clinton apology tour is making you giddy with joy. We'll see how much respect that gets us. North Korea didn't seem too impressed...what shall we do.

I seriously hope that was all in jest. What I meant by losing ground in the international community is that we could lose any sort of credibility or integrity. What then? Would we have the clout to get done what we need done? What if the time came when we needed to ask for international support? That's what I'm trying to say.

To each their own.

You give a passionate plea to be liked....then, in the same post say "To each their own".

What was that about credibility and integrity???

France treats its minorities like second class citizens (hundreds of cars set ablaze two years ago). Their "Unions" are permitted to take corporate officials hostage (without repercussions) and your worried what they think about us? Please! I told you they love our money, that;s what it boils down to. As for their support on any issue in the future, I want their support because they realize it's the right thing to do, no because they owe us one (in some circles that's call extortion your Chicago politicians know all about it, Barry included). If they don;t support us for that reason, I don't want them. Sending troops to watch you get beat up, does not constitute support in my eyes. 

I'm concerned about our nation's image, but... (and re-read this if needed), I would not be hesitant to agree with a show of force. It would be unfortunate, because I do not like violence or other aggressive acts, but I realize that not always can we communicate with other nations, etc.

You get what I'm saying? It's pretty damn simple.

Where do I get my damn Chia Obama? I want to sprinkle some ideas on it's head and see if anything meaningful grows.