Liberals on Joeuser find comfort in silence

on Jan 10, 2010

No need to apologize. Anyone can say "F- you...I'm sorry". Do what I do, if you don't mean it don't say it. Then there is nothing to be sorry about. Sorry doesn't impress me much. Thought prior to action does.

I really do apologize for my temper, it's something I still work on frequently. If you don't accept my apology, then that's fine.

Since you're the only person to openly complain about my interaction with them, I'd have to say it's all in your head. It an easy fix that I mentioned in post 87 for you, unless deep down you crave someone to tell you straight the way it is. Either way no problem.

One of the bigger problems I have with you is your taking many of my comments out of context. I mean my gawd, if you don't understand (dogma or not) what I'm trying to say - just ask me. Likewise, I will make a greater attempt to understand what you mean.

Frankly, I don't care if you're straight up with me, or if you're rationally/reasonably critical of me - but the problem is you don't come of as that.

I don't know why I keep replying to you. I know that most likely, nothing will get anywhere - no matter my explaining my points or not. You're just going to keep on being who you are. I'm spinning my wheels.

Now again, I ask, what am i doing wrong? You've said I've got issues (hah, don't we all) - so what are they?

I said "that didn't have a father tell them", I didn't say "fatherless". I really don't care to know your history, it may be relevant to forming your behavior, but we just have the final product to deal with, don't we.

Which I took as meaning either the father was there and didn't raise them right, or that they didn't have a father figure - which was my case. I'm sorry, I apparently read too far into it.

Kindly show me where I have said I was always right.

You've implied it through your words, tone, etc. I could be wrong, but it's what I've seen from my pov. If I'm wrong, then my bad.

Not me personally, but I used "everyone" subjectively. There are other examples if you care to look, but if you can't even remember what you write the same day, why bother.

So now you're crticizing me because I defered to you on this? Wtf? My bad, I can't read your mind. I figured I would ask you and not be the "know-it-all" that you think I am.

~Nitro~

That reference was my suggestion to, i believe, charles, to try to offer an insight into the mindset of many of the homosexual people that i've talked to, and those whose comments I've read and interacted with (etc).

As for "putting my shoes on" - it was used in two different ways. 1. Yeah it would be nice once in a while for you to pull your head out and actually take someone else's point of view for a second or two just so maybe you actually understand what they ARE saying - not what meaning you put into their words.

Not asking for concession to my point of view, god forbid. It's just that I've tried explaining my points to you in fairly reasonable terms - and you continue to twist them. You don't even fucking ask questions, you always assume you know what I mean. I know I'm not the greatest when it comes to clarity - it's something else I work on. I don't know, maybe that's your rub.

It just would be nice, for once, to have you say "Hey, I think you're saying XYZ. Am I right?" Instead of "Oh you men ABC," or "Oh you're just a typical liberal." Really? Come on. '

I do admit though that at times I'm bullheaded in conceding points - but you know - despite that, I still do concede most things. I've told you i'm open to being wrong despite my beliefs. I don't know if you see that, but it's there.

It's ridiculous really, but it's your life nitro - not mine. I just hope it is a good one for you, I truly do.

92

Nitro Cruiser

on Jan 10, 2010

One of the bigger problems I have with you is your taking many of my comments out of context.

Then write coherently. No extra points for quantity, shoot for quality.

Now again, I ask, what am i doing wrong? You've said I've got issues (hah, don't we all) - so what are they?

Probably best left to you and your therapist(s), wouldn't you agree?

That reference was my suggestion to, i believe, charles, to try to offer an insight into the mindset of many of the homosexual people that i've talked to, and those whose comments I've read and interacted with (etc).

And you need to explain the content of another threads discussion because??? Just another distraction irrelevant to this dialog. Try to stay focused.

You don't even fucking ask questions, you always assume you know what I mean.

90% of all your replies are practically a book, who needs to ask questions?

It just would be nice, for once, to have you say "Hey, I think you're saying XYZ. Am I right?" Instead of "Oh you men ABC," or "Oh you're just a typical liberal." Really? Come on.

When you're older you too might be able to differentiate liberals (and conservatives) by their rhetoric, especially typical ones.

It's ridiculous really, but it's your life nitro - not mine. I just hope it is a good one for you, I truly do.

Whew! Now I can sleep at night...thanks.

93

AldericJourdain

on Jan 11, 2010

90% of all your replies are practically a book, who needs to ask questions?

Apparently you, because regardless of my coherency or not, you tend to miss my point. If you don't know something or don't understand something - you ask. Gee, my grandmother taught me that.

Then write coherently. No extra points for quantity, shoot for quality.

Then take classes in reading comprehension, maybe? I try to be as coherent as possible, but maybe you need to

(What is funny is that you and two others here, on this site, are the only ones that have issues with my coherency.)

When you're older you too might be able to differentiate liberals (and conservatives) by their rhetoric, especially typical ones.

Well, unfortunately you're not doing so well in that area - in my opinion.

And you need to explain the content of another threads discussion because??? Just another distraction irrelevant to this dialog. Try to stay focused.

Hey, you're the one that brought up my "needing to have everyone fit in my shoes." All I did was explain to you what I meant, which you seemd to not understand...again.

Whew! Now I can sleep at night...thanks.

Awww, of course. You know me, a typical evil liberal, always looking out for others! (That was sarcasm btw)

~AJ

94

Nitro Cruiser

on Jan 11, 2010

I try to be as coherent as possible,

It not working for you.

90% of all your replies are practically a book, who needs to ask questions?

Apparently you, because regardless of my coherency or not, you tend to miss my point. If you don't know something or don't understand something - you ask.

Let me rephrase that for your poor comprehension...who cares what your point is. Half your responses are babble why would anyone ask you to spew more?

And you need to explain the content of another threads discussion because??? Just another distraction irrelevant to this dialog. Try to stay focused.

Hey, you're the one that brought up my "needing to have everyone fit in my shoes." All I did was explain to you what I meant, which you seemd to not understand...again.

No...again you can't comprehend. You flat out lied about saying it, and I called you on it (did your grandmother teach you that too?). I could care less what is was about. But don't take my word for it (I'm biased, remember), ask someone else to read it for you then explain it back in baby words.

95

Dr Guy

on Jan 11, 2010

hen explain it back in baby words.

baby is a multi-sylable word. Careful with those Nitro.

96

Nitro Cruiser

on Jan 11, 2010

baby is a multi-sylable word. Careful with those Nitro

I can't put it any more plainly than I have in the one or two sentences that led to the unnecessary bloat that was loaded on. I do take some responsibility for feeding the pigeon (you start with one and soon many are there). Some folks just aren't happy unless they can complicate the meaning to their purpose in order to make the original point moot. AJ should run for office, he'd be perfect for an expanding bureaucracy. That or DMV clerk.

97

CharlesCS

on Jan 11, 2010

Yes, the favorite slogan--and thankfully. But much of it is a mix of vigilance and luck. And I know you will say all luck with Obama.

There is no such thing as luck, it either happens or doesn't based on who's doing their work and who isn't. It didn't happen during Bush's Administration after 9/11 but so far we have seen 1 successful attack at the base and one almost successful (thanks to his stupidity) attempt on a plane and both had plenty of intel to have stopped both before happening.

It's interesting to note how so many people cry about the bad intel that supposely led to war in Iraq (WMD) yet we have legit intel on 2 terrorist attacks and we did nothing and the crybabies don't cries about that.

98

Dr Guy

on Jan 11, 2010

I do take some responsibility for feeding the pigeon (you start with one and soon many are there).

Yea, it is that tender conservative heart of yours. Can't stand to see the poor suckers suffer.

99

CharlesCS

on Jan 11, 2010

Not only does AJ take the current topic and change it to what he thinks it's really about, but he also gets mad when people don't understand or misunderstand what he says; throw in him having to defend every post he makes and (while entertaining) the article turns into a "me, I and myself" defense article.

AJ is too sensitive with his beliefs and opinions and to be honest is very weak when it comes to standing by his replies and he likes using that "I don't want to come off as a know-it-all" comments he makes quite often. I say you either stick by your beliefs, post comments with assurance, don't be so sensitive and stop making excuse or maybe you might want to site at the little kids table.

AJ, you say Liberals are just as much Americans as we are and you know what? That's true. But you need to accept that just like you disagree with what we say that opinions from Liberals will also be dissected and criticized and when you believe in "A" (A as in your opinions) you may not find yourself accepting "B" (B as in opposing opinions) and finding those who believe in "B" to be incorrect and maybe even stupid. The same can be said about those who believe in "B".

But ask yourself this. Why is it that Liberals and Conservatives or Democrats and Republicans seem to always be at odds with just about every issue this country faces? How come we can't agree on at least 1 issue? And most of all, ask yourself this. Why won't people from either side give an inch without asking for something else in return? While I could say Republicans and Conservatives can give in once in a while to show we can work with Democrats and Liberals, how come I never see that same kind of talk from the other side? How come this Administration seems to be running full steam ahead on Democratic fuel only while no one seems to think there is something wrong about this, this is not how our Gov't was meant to be run? You say we are all Americans, then how come this Administration seem to thinks only Democratic opinions are worth listening too?

100

Nitro Cruiser

on Jan 11, 2010

How come we can't agree on at least 1 issue? And most of all, ask yourself this. Why won't people from either side give an inch without asking for something else in return?

Chuck, I was reading this and it made me think of the TARP fiasco last year. People tend to forget who the majority was in Congress then. The Democrats were salivating over passing TARP and they got it. So what is their defense now when asked why they are spending so much? It's "Bush" started it.

Here are the vote totals:

House/Senate #'s Yea Nay Not Voting

Democrat 172/40 63/9 /1 (Senator Kennedy)

Republican 91/33 108/15

Independent /1 /1

Totals 263/74 171/25 /1

Make no mistake Bush couldn't have done it without enthusiastic Democrat support. That is what compromise gets you at least with the Pelosi/Reid combination.

101

Dr Guy

on Jan 11, 2010

That is what compromise gets you at least with the Pelosi/Reid combination.

Yes, compromising with democrats is like believing the fox when he says he will take you safely across the river. They get you across (take your compromise), but eat you on the way.

102

Nitro Cruiser

on Jan 11, 2010

They get you across (take your compromise), but eat you on the way.

The Gingerbread man....

103

CharlesCS

on Jan 11, 2010

Yes, compromising with democrats is like believing the fox when he says he will take you safely across the river. They get you across (take your compromise), but eat you on the way.

Sounds like the Scorpion story, where is stung the other animal anyways while it swam across the river.

104

AldericJourdain

on Jan 11, 2010

AJ, you say Liberals are just as much Americans as we are and you know what? That's true. But you need to accept that just like you disagree with what we say that opinions from Liberals will also be dissected and criticized and when you believe in "A" (A as in your opinions) you may not find yourself accepting "B" (B as in opposing opinions) and finding those who believe in "B" to be incorrect and maybe even stupid. The same can be said about those who believe in "B"

I have no problem with people disagreeing. Heck, Charles, I'm the only left leaning person in my family, which likes to discuss politics. So people disagree with me pretty much all the time. The issue I have, specifically with Nitro, is his approach. His tactics if you will.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, and yes I'm not any better, but I always figured you could disagree reasonably. No twisting of words, no name calling. Where's the honor in taking someone's wording intentionally (which is how I felt Nitro was doing it), and just....for want of a term, perverting it.

Sure, we all get worked up - *raises hand* - myself probably more than most because I'm young.

I don't know Charles. I just don't know. I can handle debate - heck, I can handle heated/passionate debates - but to go out of your way and call someone stupid or any other number of names, simply because they disagree with you...No. That's crap; it's wrong when I do it, and it's wrong when anyone else does it.

Where's the honor in that? Where's the respect, dignity, etc. in it?

But ask yourself this. Why is it that Liberals and Conservatives or Democrats and Republicans seem to always be at odds with just about every issue this country faces? How come we can't agree on at least 1 issue? And most of all, ask yourself this. Why won't people from either side give an inch without asking for something else in return? While I could say Republicans and Conservatives can give in once in a while to show we can work with Democrats and Liberals, how come I never see that same kind of talk from the other side? How come this Administration seems to be running full steam ahead on Democratic fuel only while no one seems to think there is something wrong about this, this is not how our Gov't was meant to be run? You say we are all Americans, then how come this Administration seem to thinks only Democratic opinions are worth listening too?

I have my guesses on why Liberals and Conservatives are at odds, but they're just that - guesses. I could go on and on about it because it is an issue that drives me up the wall. It's something that we, The United States of America, should be past.

I guess it doesn't help that we let ourselves be sheeple to party politics. We say we're pissed at politicians and that we want more honorable people, but we bite hook, line, and sinker. Again, and again, and again. We say we're smarter, but as soon as another political TV add is out showing that the other side is a different (trained) chimp - we blow our lid.

We think "How dare they believe that, or want that!" They're evil, they're socialist, they're anti-american! Sound familiar? These are the games and tactics that have been used time and again. People may have different opinions - but that doesn't mean that, based only on their opinion, they are evil.

Additionally, neither side listens - because they don't want to. They're happy in their little narrow minded

Honestly, we may claim that we do, but I really think at a basic level no one gives a damn about those outside their: religion, class, ethnicity, political ideaology, etc.

I mean... You have conservatives who feel that if someone is a liberal - then they can be pigeon holed, that they are ABC. (IE - oh, you're liberal? You must be pro-abortion!) Likewise, you have liberals who go and pigeon hole connservatives. You see it here, at DU, at FreeRepublic, damn near everywhere.

Why do we do this?

Who knows, maybe we're simpletons. Maybe it's like the structure/basis of religion? IE - we like having things fit our views. I don't mean to disparage religion, I'm just referencing a book that I've read that talks about early religion (namely, abrahamic and early pagan). If you go back years and years and years (thousands) to early religion - you find that people (nomads) desired a way to explain what they could not comprehend. Hence, they created a sky god. It's a simple reason, but you see it a lot in things. Modern religion, same way. Your religion provides the explanation of things that you just can't understand. Science, same thing. Political parties? Setting aside the knee jerk cynicism based remark about exploitation....Yup, it's a system that confirms your beliefs (IE it looks out for you)

Or, maybe...it's a byproduct of our two party system? Maybe we've let the Democrats and Republicans fool us into thinking that the system we have is the best possible. Who knows.

Differences or not - I would just like to see people that can offer ideas, not vitrol. Compromise, not "my way or the highway."

Yes, we won't always agree; as long as there are more than two people in the world, there will be differences (Or say, a schizophrenic, lol), Yes, sometimes people will want their way only, but...if we keep our goal in sight (Improving america, building a nation on our principles) I still think we can do this. I truly believe that we can move foward. Not for soclism, nor capitalism, nor corporatism, nor liberalism...but for our country.

I try to hope, but it's fading fast.

Anyways...

Like I said, I could go on and on and on, so I'll just stop here....I hope. (I have a lot to say on that topic...) I've got a lot of guesses on why people don't listen to each other. I once thought of going into politics because I feel so strongly that both sides are fools (politicians and the people that follow blindly).

Yes, compromising with democrats is like believing the fox when he says he will take you safely across the river. They get you across (take your compromise), but eat you on the way.

I would have to say that both sides are like starving bears in the congressional den. Politics just isn't about real give/take and lets move forward, compromise. It's about what you can get for your side, or your stingy ideology - forget the other side or other points of view.

That in the long run, can hurt progress and/or the nation as a whole.

****

That said, I'm taking a fellow JUser's advice and "detoxing." I again apologize for my temper; I really am a much more mature person than my failure to control it implies. I hope that one day I finally prove that. I'm a better man than my faults.

See you guys in a few days.

~AJ

105

Dr Guy

on Jan 12, 2010

Sounds like the Scorpion story, where is stung the other animal anyways while it swam across the river.

The difference between the scorpion and the fox is that both die with the scorpion story. Have you seen any democrats impaling themselves? Not hardly.